FY-19 LDO/CWO Procurement Board

[Intel]

8 minutes ago, ET1EXWIWSW said:

I'm curious what everyone here thinks about this excerpt from a letter posted on another Navy website.

"Those limited-duty officers and chief warrant officers who were initiated chiefs have my greatest respect. The lessons they learned in the chief's mess they have carried into the wardroom. They train and mentor their newest arrivals and reach out to encourage those who will be successful in moving up. These officers are not just technical leaders and managers; they also are building a stronger Navy by building future leaders. What about those limited-duty officers who bypassed the chief's mess?

Well, they missed some great training, and I doubt they will ever really understand what it means to be the chief or to hear the phrase, "Ask the chief!" While it isn't official Navy policy, I think a first class petty officer should prove he can make chief before going to the wardroom. It takes more than attending knife and fork school to make a great mustang officer." (emphasis is my own, because I think it will bring the most conversation.)

I think it's someone who is making inaccurate generalizations.  Being a chief doesn't make you a leader.  Congratulations, you held on long enough.  That being said, being an LDO doesn't even make you a leader.  These boards don't see the person, they see their record.  And there are a lot of things about a person you don't see in their record.

Being a leader has nothing to do with rank.  It's a mindset.  And if someone truly believes rank is how you measure good leadership, then I think their head is buried in the sand.

[Guest AOC718]

I think it depends on the person. There is a lot of information and training and knowledge and wisdom that you are privy to in the mess. Although most of it is supposed to be passed down to the blue shirts, we do not live in a perfect world or perfect NAVY. Part of the description of a CPO is to train and mentor junior officers. A mustang does this as well but a PO1 will have little to no experience doing this. Of course with anything there are exceptions. So the transition might be a little be a little more difficult for a PO1. I have not personally encountered an standout LDO who has by passed the mess but I am certain that they are out there and I am certain some of you PO1 LDO hopefuls will be outstanding once selected. But there is definitely a lot missed from by passing the mess.

[*ETCEXWIWSW*]

Just now, atypicalET said:

I saw multiple versions of this rhetoric back when I was an ET1 contemplating LDO. My buddy went for it and I didn’t, he is now a 618X and I am a Chief.

My biggest question for you, and this is not intended to incite anger, is this: Why would you care? LDO’s and CWO’s choose their own, and if you are chosen that is all you should care about.

Do you stand to miss some things? Absolutely! But, you stand to miss an opportunity entirely if you don’t give the decision to those LDO’s and CWO’s... like I did.

Last thing from me will be this: I wish I would have put my package in years ago.

Thanks for the response.

No anger incited at all. In my opinion, each one of us should strive to be successful in whichever way we define "success." Of course, I desire to be successful, and to emulate some of the great Chiefs that I have worked for, but my desired career path aims for a different mess. I personally disagree with the statement I bolded, because even as an LDO (from PO1), I still need to appreciate the adage "ask the Chief," because the Divisional LCPO/LDO DIVO relationship should be cohesive, professional, and laser focused on the success of the Sailors and the mission. I don't think any PO1 SHOULD prove "he can make Chief before going to the Wardroom," because they should already know, understand, and appreciate the purpose and capability of a functioning Chief's mess. Just my two cents.

[Guest atypicalET]

7 minutes ago, ET1EXWIWSW said:

Thanks for the response.

No anger incited at all. In my opinion, each one of us should strive to be successful in whichever way we define "success." 

Things are better for us ETs now, but they were terrible for us WRT advancement my first three or four looks at Chief. It became a challenge and there was no way in hell I wasn’t going to be a Chief before doing anything else. I literally laser focused on Chief because it was hard. Probably worse reasons, but I definitely ignored opportunities along my 9 year tenure as an ET1. I fault you in no way for playing your hand at every opportunity. Good luck, and hit me up if you want record review assistance or mentorship if you have any CPO aspirations.

[*ETCEXWIWSW*]

Just now, atypicalET said:

Things are better for us ETs now, but they were terrible for us WRT advancement my first three or four looks at Chief. It became a challenge and there was no way in hell I wasn’t going to be a Chief before doing anything else. I literally laser focused on Chief because it was hard. Probably worse reasons, but I definitely ignored opportunities along my 9 year tenure as an ET1. I fault you in no way for playing your hand at every opportunity. Good luck, and hit me up if you want record review assistance or mentorship if you have any CPO aspirations.

My CPO aspirations still exist, I didn't just shove them to the wayside in search of "greener pastures" or anything...SBE 4/4 times and hard work on making sure my record was straight and making actionable decisions to become better and more qualified. I appreciate the offer, and I will definitely take you up on that if/when the time comes. Thank you!

[Guest SubETC]

54 minutes ago, ET1EXWIWSW said:

I'm curious what everyone here thinks about this excerpt from a letter posted on another Navy website.

"Those limited-duty officers and chief warrant officers who were initiated chiefs have my greatest respect. The lessons they learned in the chief's mess they have carried into the wardroom. They train and mentor their newest arrivals and reach out to encourage those who will be successful in moving up. These officers are not just technical leaders and managers; they also are building a stronger Navy by building future leaders. What about those limited-duty officers who bypassed the chief's mess?

Well, they missed some great training, and I doubt they will ever really understand what it means to be the chief or to hear the phrase, "Ask the chief!" While it isn't official Navy policy, I think a first class petty officer should prove he can make chief before going to the wardroom. It takes more than attending knife and fork school to make a great mustang officer." (emphasis is my own, because I think it will bring the most conversation.)

I can only speak for myself. I know there are Chiefs that give the mess a bad name, but I personally have never seen a sailor that was mentored by an Officer have a better understanding of leadership then one that was mentored by a good Chief. While I don’t believe it should be a policy, due to the fact there are some crappy Chiefs (or E7’s as I call them), I do believe that I have learned more from being the Chief then I would have if I would have tried to go LDO before getting my Anchors.

[Guest Sbreakall]

I think it also goes back to the chiefs job tho... train the ensign. Having experience "training the ensign" could make you a better ensign (I use the word "could" because there are exceptions to every rule).

 

It's already been said. You can have a great first class leader and a horrible chief leader. Rank doesn't make the leader.

 

But, let's get technical... any E6 who makes LDO is promoted to E7 and then O1, correct? Loophole that helps us E6s think we still have a chance. Lol

[Guest Sbreakall]

3 minutes ago, Sbreakall said:

I think it also goes back to the chiefs job tho... train the ensign. Having experience "training the ensign" could make you a better ensign (I use the word "could" because there are exceptions to every rule).

 

It's already been said. You can have a great first class leader and a horrible chief leader. Rank doesn't make the leader.

 

But, let's get technical... any E6 who makes LDO is promoted to E7 and then O1, correct? Loophole that helps us E6s think we still have a chance. Lol

Also.... why should a 21 year old with zero experience be accepted into the wardroom and not a 26+ year old with 8+ years experience?

[Guest Mcaaron]

1 hour ago, ET1EXWIWSW said:

I'm curious what everyone here thinks about this excerpt from a letter posted on another Navy website.

"Those limited-duty officers and chief warrant officers who were initiated chiefs have my greatest respect. The lessons they learned in the chief's mess they have carried into the wardroom. They train and mentor their newest arrivals and reach out to encourage those who will be successful in moving up. These officers are not just technical leaders and managers; they also are building a stronger Navy by building future leaders. What about those limited-duty officers who bypassed the chief's mess?

Well, they missed some great training, and I doubt they will ever really understand what it means to be the chief or to hear the phrase, "Ask the chief!" While it isn't official Navy policy, I think a first class petty officer should prove he can make chief before going to the wardroom. It takes more than attending knife and fork school to make a great mustang officer." (emphasis is my own, because I think it will bring the most conversation.)

This conversation happens every year. The community wouldn't open LDO for PO1's if they didn't continue to see value in doing so.

In my experience, it all depends on the individual. I'll speak for the aviation community when I say that we are pretty good at spotting which LDO's have been prior Chiefs.

I wouldn't trade my experience as a Chief for anything.  I would not want to be an LDO without that experience. That is me. On the contrary, I don't have the legs for Captain, and i'm okay with that.

I have also known plenty of LDO's who were never Chiefs that are great LDO's, mentor junior officers with the best of them, and are "bridges" between the wardroom and the mess.

 

[Guest ADCS*VFA]

So here is my "two cents". I would like for everyone who reads this please follow and understand the opinion I have. I will take each of you down memory lane just a little.

Have you ever been asked by your spouse to stop by the store on your way home? The answer is yes for most of us, if not everyone. While in the supermarket have you ever seen that old, retired CPO/SCPO/MCPO with the retired hat on? Yes! While in the supermarket had s/he ever stopped you asking the genetic question: "Hey Sailor how is my Navy doing?" While answering s/he proceeds to spend countless time telling you a sea story or two. Well, what are most of us thinking? I will tell you: "would this guy please leave me alone so I can get home."  Do you know why the majority of us say This? IT IS BEACUSE NO ONE CARES! Once we retire, no one cares. How many Sailors have retired in your Navy tenure? How many of them do you still call, to see if they are doing well? Not many I assume. So with that being said. Go get yours. Who cares what you do, when you accomplish it, and how. When we all retire the only thing we take home is: 1. A check, 2. A flag, 3. A family who we miss countless things for.  No one cares, so why should you. Do your job! Take care of Sailors, but, most importantly, take care of YOU! DO NOT BE LOYAL TO A RANK THAT WILL NOT BE LOYAL TO YOU WHEN YOUR GONE!

My two cents. Think about it!

 

[*ETCEXWIWSW*]

3 minutes ago, ADCS*VFA said:

So here is my "two cents". I would like for everyone who reads this please follow and understand the opinion I have. I will take each of you down memory lane just a little.

Have you ever been asked by your spouse to stop by the store on your way home? The answer is yes for most of us, if not everyone. While in the supermarket have you ever seen that old, retired CPO/SCPO/MCPO with the retired hat on? Yes! While in the supermarket had s/he ever stopped you asking the genetic question: "Hey Sailor how is my Navy doing?" While answering s/he proceeds to spend countless time telling you a sea story or two. Well, what are most of us thinking? I will tell you: "would this guy please leave me alone so I can get home."  Do you know why the majority of us say This? IT IS BEACUSE NO ONE CARES! Once we retire, no one cares. How many Sailors have retired in your Navy tenure? How many of them do you still call, to see if they are doing well? Not many I assume. So with that being said. Go get yours. Who cares what you do, when you accomplish it, and how. When we all retire the only thing we take home is: 1. A check, 2. A flag, 3. A family who we miss countless things for.  No one cares, so why should you. Do your job! Take care of Sailors, but, most importantly, take care of YOU! DO NOT BE LOYAL TO A RANK THAT WILL NOT BE LOYAL TO YOU WHEN YOUR GONE!

My two cents. Think about it!

 

I have a ton of respect for this kind of real and candid response. Gave me a perspective that I never considered. I appreciate that, a lot. 

[*Mustang6235*]

Here’s my problem with this mindset, let me see if I can explain it. 

Rate “x” has a chief quota of 5 and there are 100 elgibles. 

Rate “y” has a quota of 40 with 80 elgibles. 

 

The #6 of 100 in one rate stays a PO1, while the #40 of 80 makes chief. 

Which one was the better First Class? 

[Tony]

8 minutes ago, ADCS*VFA said:

So here is my "two cents". I would like for everyone who reads this please follow and understand the opinion I have. I will take each of you down memory lane just a little.

Have you ever been asked by your spouse to stop by the store on your way home? The answer is yes for most of us, if not everyone. While in the supermarket have you ever seen that old, retired CPO/SCPO/MCPO with the retired hat on? Yes! While in the supermarket had s/he ever stopped you asking the genetic question: "Hey Sailor how is my Navy doing?" While answering s/he proceeds to spend countless time telling you a sea story or two. Well, what are most of us thinking? I will tell you: "would this guy please leave me alone so I can get home."  Do you know why the majority of us say This? IT IS BEACUSE NO ONE CARES! Once we retire, no one cares. How many Sailors have retired in your Navy tenure? How many of them do you still call, to see if they are doing well? Not many I assume. So with that being said. Go get yours. Who cares what you do, when you accomplish it, and how. When we all retire the only thing we take home is: 1. A check, 2. A flag, 3. A family who we miss countless things for.  No one cares, so why should you. Do your job! Take care of Sailors, but, most importantly, take care of YOU! DO NOT BE LOYAL TO A RANK THAT WILL NOT BE LOYAL TO YOU WHEN YOUR GONE!

My two cents. Think about it!

 

Awesome post 

[*ETCEXWIWSW*]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

Awesome post 

Agreed. Maybe a candidate for a "Hall of Fame" or "Best Of" board?

[Guest PeterA]

7 minutes ago, ADCS*VFA said:

So here is my "two cents". I would like for everyone who reads this please follow and understand the opinion I have. I will take each of you down memory lane just a little.

Have you ever been asked by your spouse to stop by the store on your way home? The answer is yes for most of us, if not everyone. While in the supermarket have you ever seen that old, retired CPO/SCPO/MCPO with the retired hat on? Yes! While in the supermarket had s/he ever stopped you asking the genetic question: "Hey Sailor how is my Navy doing?" While answering s/he proceeds to spend countless time telling you a sea story or two. Well, what are most of us thinking? I will tell you: "would this guy please leave me alone so I can get home."  Do you know why the majority of us say This? IT IS BEACUSE NO ONE CARES! Once we retire, no one cares. How many Sailors have retired in your Navy tenure? How many of them do you still call, to see if they are doing well? Not many I assume. So with that being said. Go get yours. Who cares what you do, when you accomplish it, and how. When we all retire the only thing we take home is: 1. A check, 2. A flag, 3. A family who we miss countless things for.  No one cares, so why should you. Do your job! Take care of Sailors, but, most importantly, take care of YOU! DO NOT BE LOYAL TO A RANK THAT WILL NOT BE LOYAL TO YOU WHEN YOUR GONE!

My two cents. Think about it!

 

This is probably one of the truest and realist thing I’ve read in awhile. I’m happy that I’m not the only one who thinks like this. Get as most as you can out of the navy then move on. Who cares if a 1st class goes straight to LDO.

As ADCS*VFA rightly states, “When we all retire the only thing we take home is: 1. A check, 2. A flag, 3. A family who we miss countless things for.  No one cares, so why should you. Do your job! Take care of Sailors, but, most importantly, take care of YOU!”

[Tony]

1 minute ago, ET1EXWIWSW said:

Agreed. Maybe a candidate for a "Hall of Fame" or "Best Of" board?

Yes, definitely post of the month! 

[Guest KingATC]

5 minutes ago, ET1EXWIWSW said:

Agreed. Maybe a candidate for a "Hall of Fame" or "Best Of" board?

Best comment of year. I'm a First Class that is applying on the hopes I get selected. I will continue and try to take advantage of every opportunity the Navy has to offer. Regardless of Rank! I will do whats best for me and the Family. I do respect everyones opinion.

[Guest PeterA]

8 minutes ago, Mustang6235 said:

Here’s my problem with this mindset, let me see if I can explain it. 

Rate “x” has a chief quota of 5 and there are 100 elgibles. 

Rate “y” has a quota of 40 with 80 elgibles. 

 

The #6 of 100 in one rate stays a PO1, while the #40 of 80 makes chief. 

Which one was the better First Class? 

This is a great example of the AWO rate. You can be #20 of the 19 sailors selected out of 200 eligible 1st class. Does that make you a bad 1st class? Not at all. The decision is whether you want to sit stagnant and wait for the numbers to be in your favor or you look for other opportunities to better yourself? The military is a short career. 20+ years goes by quickly. What matters is what you accomplished in this time. The path that each of us chose to accomplish this shouldn’t matter. 

[*Mustang6235*]

If you were selected, you owe no one an explanation. There’s a good chance you, as a PO1, beat out a chief to get selected. It’s no ones business what rank you were before picking up LDO. You’re a mustang now, take your experiences and make a positive impact in the wardroom. 

[*ETCEXWIWSW*]

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, advice, and input. Now let's just hope we can put it all to practice tomorrow (hopefully!)

[Guest ADCS*VFA]

Well said Mustang 6235

[Guest SubETC]

53 minutes ago, ADCS*VFA said:

So here is my "two cents". I would like for everyone who reads this please follow and understand the opinion I have. I will take each of you down memory lane just a little.

Have you ever been asked by your spouse to stop by the store on your way home? The answer is yes for most of us, if not everyone. While in the supermarket have you ever seen that old, retired CPO/SCPO/MCPO with the retired hat on? Yes! While in the supermarket had s/he ever stopped you asking the genetic question: "Hey Sailor how is my Navy doing?" While answering s/he proceeds to spend countless time telling you a sea story or two. Well, what are most of us thinking? I will tell you: "would this guy please leave me alone so I can get home."  Do you know why the majority of us say This? IT IS BEACUSE NO ONE CARES! Once we retire, no one cares. How many Sailors have retired in your Navy tenure? How many of them do you still call, to see if they are doing well? Not many I assume. So with that being said. Go get yours. Who cares what you do, when you accomplish it, and how. When we all retire the only thing we take home is: 1. A check, 2. A flag, 3. A family who we miss countless things for.  No one cares, so why should you. Do your job! Take care of Sailors, but, most importantly, take care of YOU! DO NOT BE LOYAL TO A RANK THAT WILL NOT BE LOYAL TO YOU WHEN YOUR GONE!

My two cents. Think about it!

 

I do agree with this 100%, I’m doing this for my family, and trying to make a difference to a few Sailors along the way. In the end though, when I retire, the Navy isn’t going to be calling to see how I am doing. 

[Guest KingATC]

Well here is to @McMustang6330 giving us some good news tomorrow that a NAVADMIN for Results will populate.

[Guest Sbreakall]

3 minutes ago, KingATC said:

Well here is to @McMustang6330 giving us some good news tomorrow that a NAVADMIN for Results will populate.

Are you saying it's confirmed for tomorrow?

[Guest KingATC]

Just now, Sbreakall said:

Are you saying it's confirmed for tomorrow?

No, Im definetely not saying that. I said lets hope it does.