FY18 Chief Selection Board

[Guest Surf AT]

We need a lot more contributions if we are going to hit 100 pages twice. Twice, I say. Every year when we reach over 100 pages @Tony always deletes the duplicate messages and restructures the blog and the we go back down to I want to say about 60 pages and then we build up to over 100 pages again before they post.

[Guest Butter Star]

38 minutes ago, Riverine Rat said:

I think the problem everyone is trying to make and why they are getting so upset is the fact that they may have checked those blocks, taken the tough assignments, kissed butt, get the great eval, quals, awards, ect. only not to get selected and see someone come up behind them with less time in rank, and in the navy who has not checked blocks or have half to none of the quals, awards, leadership get selected. It can be frustrating when we all want to get promoted and move up and work really hard to do that only to not get selected and you see the people who work for you and ask you questions and you have to lead be the ones to get selected. I under stand and have been there. I am not a Chief, never sat any boards so I don't know what goes on during the process but my last 3 CMC's, 2 DLCPO, and a number of Chiefs, Senior, Master Chiefs have all told me the same thing keep doing what I am doing. I have checked all the blocks so its just a matter of time. or this just was not your year. Someone please tell me what makes it a FCPO with 8-10 years in the Navy, Never been LPO, or anything more than a shop sup. how can it be their year, but when it comes to a 12+ year FCPO LPO at sea, Great evals, Quals, Leadership ect. not be that FCPO's year. That is what frustrates everyone. Not saying that young FCPO did not deserve to be selected I have known great Chiefs with less time in then me. Im just saying you can start to lose faith in the system when you have done what everyone has told you  what you need to do to advance only to be passed over year after year.  

OK here is the deal.  I have not sat a promotion board but I have sat numerous ranking and SOQ/SOY boards.  Not having looked at your record or other people's records I would guess that you might be one dimensional.  That sounds bad, but in reality it isn't, but for promotion it is.

CPO selection boards are a point system.  Whoever has more points gets selected.  That's it, it's more complicated than that, but that's basically it.  If someone else got promoted and you didn't what it comes down to is they had more points.  Doesn't mean they are better or did or didn't deserve it.  They had more points, they played the game better.

We don't have to agree with what the Navy values and assigns points to, but we have to play by the rules of the game if you want to promote.  I have ranked people higher than people that were obviously better Sailors because that's how the points breakdown landed.  The selection board members don't have a choice.  You might top out in points on leadership, but if you don't have any volunteering or education you miss out on those points.  So you scored slightly higher on leadership than this other guy, but he has a degree and coaches his sons football team.  He's a chief now and you aren't.  Is he a better Sailor?  Probably not, but it's the system we work within.

So my advice to anyone that is bitter (I'm not saying you shouldn't be) is to look at the big picture.  Ask people what they did that were selected and anything they did that you didn't.  Well do it and make sure it is documented in a way the board will see it.

 

[Guest ¡Viva!]

Well, if anyone is interested, US Navy Live is broadcasting Bootcamp graduation: July 21st.  Brings back so much memories.

[Guest Surf AT]

Yes, we know it is a point system. Sometimes you know those people very well that picked up. Sometimes you are their LPO when it happens and you know what they did or didn't do and it can be hard to swallow. Especially, when you have a degree and they don't. You have more awards than them including the MOVSM which they don't. You have a MILCAP and they don't. You have more quals and higher quals than them. ETC... When most of your Chiefs and Senior Chiefs look at your record and make the comment about how you have more everything than they do and then say "You must of pissed off somebody somewhere." Because they are always at a loss. My wife likes to joke about it and says that they look at my stuff and say well he is over qualified let's move on to someone else. I don't even stress out about it anymore. I am to the point I either pick up and retire or I just retire. No matter what I will be retiring at 20 if still a First or 21 if I pick up. It is not pick me or I get out thing. It is a family thing. My wife agreed to let me stay one year longer if I pick up.

[Guest Christyl]

When I failed my PRT my Senior Chief and I didn't want to hide it and we chose to  address it in the eval.

What do you guys think? I have had some individuals tell me that it is strong and other saying it makes it look like I'm making excuses. Yes I went on to correct it and became ACFL, then command CFL.

Also, my history of assignments are all over the place, after from returning from my IA I went limdu and then came to my shore command and failed the PRT. How badly do you think Limdu impacts my overall board scoring!? Also, I don't see where IA tours (I went to Afghan) are taken into consideration, did that end? 

 

[Guest Surf AT]

When it comes to LIMDU I have seen people pick up the next cycle or two after coming back. I have also seen people pick up after failing a PRT and then becoming an ACFL. It shows that you are able to dust yourself off and come back.

[Guest Riverine Rat]

32 minutes ago, Surf AT said:

Yes, we know it is a point system. Sometimes you know those people very well that picked up. Sometimes you are their LPO when it happens and you know what they did or didn't do and it can be hard to swallow. Especially, when you have a degree and they don't. You have more awards than them including the MOVSM which they don't. You have a MILCAP and they don't. You have more quals and higher quals than them. ETC... When most of your Chiefs and Senior Chiefs look at your record and make the comment about how you have more everything than they do and then say "You must of pissed off somebody somewhere." Because they are always at a loss. My wife likes to joke about it and says that they look at my stuff and say well he is over qualified let's move on to someone else. I don't even stress out about it anymore. I am to the point I either pick up and retire or I just retire. No matter what I will be retiring at 20 if still a First or 21 if I pick up. It is not pick me or I get out thing. It is a family thing. My wife agreed to let me stay one year longer if I pick up.

lol I am with you 100% I think I am on a page in someones little black book of "HE WILL NEVER MAKE IT AS LONG AS I AM IN THE NAVY!" because I pissed someone off somewhere.

[Guest DeepSea_IDC]

10 minutes ago, papasmurf said:

Sir,

 

I guess then I have questions and ill ask just to put it out for anyone.

What are the main things points are assigned to..this is a list of what i focus on.. 

Education (formal college)
Leadership
Voulenteerism
Mil Education (PPME/JPME/C-Schools etc..anything beyond required GMT's etc)
EVAL's
AWARDS (NAM and above id assume)
Mentorship
CPO365/FCPOA participation
 

and of course the obvious and normal wickets of SSP, Command support, mission support etc.

Anything else Im missing?

Your big ticket items are:

Your trait average compared to reporting seniors CUMULATIVE average.

Leadership (you don't need to be a LPO to be a leader and just because you are a LPO, doesn't mean you're doing a good job).

Your performance in that role. SOY/IOY is a big one, inspections, etc.

Diversity of assignments. 

There are other smaller things that weight in also, obviously, and they help rack up the points. 

A note on your education stuff; 100% done with an associates weighs more than 90% with a bachelors (assuming you didn't get an Associates first).

if you want to measure why you were selected vs why you weren't, I would encourage the people who make it to post what the difference was this year vs when they were passed over. Ultimately, just ask the first year Chiefs. Some may tell you it is strictly quota driven but I'm willing to be you can pin point a change.

[Guest IS1(IW/SW/AW/EXW)]

Are we doing the brag sheet portion of the process already?  I usually save that as a bitter, tear-laden lament after I get the "N", but let's do it now!

10 years active duty

Five years consecutive sea duty

LPO at sea

MTS-certified instructor

Four warfare pins

Mobilization to Afghanistan (Reserves)

Bachelors degree

LPO of current unit

Volunteerism noted in evals

Consistent EP evals

100% E-6 and below certified EIWS (technically not true until next month)

Unit training officer (including Full Speed Ahead)

CPO 364 participation and leadership (I took a day off)

Serve as unit SEL when my Chief is away

Leadership and mentorship are always first and foremost in my evals

Traveled through time and killed Mecha-Hitler, thus preventing him from using his death ray against the allies (you only think it's made-up because I prevented it from happening)

[Guest ¡Viva!]

3 minutes ago, DeepSea_IDC said:

Your big ticket items are:

Your trait average compared to reporting seniors CUMULATIVE average.

Leadership (you don't need to be a LPO to be a leader and just because you are a LPO, doesn't mean you're doing a good job).

Your performance in that role. SOY/IOY is a big one, inspections, etc.

Diversity of assignments. 

There are other smaller things that weight in also, obviously, and they help rack up the points. 

A note on your education stuff; 100% done with an associates weighs more than 90% with a bachelors (assuming you didn't get an Associates first).

if you want to measure why you were selected vs why you weren't, I would encourage the people who make it to post what the difference was this year vs when they were passed over. Ultimately, just ask the first year Chiefs. Some may tell you it is strictly quota driven but I'm willing to be you can pin point a change.

I would just to add something on the Diversity of assignments.  I was standing in one of the MCPON's AHC here in NAS Jax, and that was one of the questions asked. MCPON G said that it does not matter if you have been back to back to sea for so long, or back to back to shore for so long.  As long as you are performing, that's all that matters.

He added that there are Sailors who are very comfortable at sea.  While at sea, all the Sailors are in one area and can be dealt with easily vice on commands where Sailors live in differrent area.  There are no appointments to handle, less leave and manning to balance, all the Sailors are there.  Some Sailors onboard a naval vessel stay stagnant.

At shore commands, the number of subordinates could increase to three times more than the number of Sailors being handled at sea.  All of these Sailors will have family issues, leave, appointments and etc.  

Bottom line he said, it does not matter where you are, you need to perform.

[Guest IS1(IW/SW/AW/EXW)]

1 minute ago, papasmurf said:

Question was the MTS part of an instructor duty or did you pull that some other way?

I was an instructor at Corry Station.

[Guest The Man]

good morning all. I was catching up this morning and I will admit. it is frustrating seeing people advanced, that in your (our) eyes, have no reason to be. Just don't sell yourself short. there is absolutely nothing wrong with retiring as a first class. I'm staring down the barrel of retirement as we speak. Do I want to make Chief? ABSOLUTELY!! but in the end you have to decide whats more important to you. For a time I was angry at those who made it who had less time in than me. I made career decisions that were great opportunities for me to excel because I was hungry for advancement. but they were not good decisions for my family by any means. I have good numbers for advancement this year. best in a while. but frankly this year scares the hell out of me. I'm going through a divorce, staring down the barrel of retirement. And if I don't make it. what then?

I guess I'm at a point where I am questioning everything. Did I do it right?

its that knot in your stomach when something goes wrong during an evolution like unrep. that fear of "did I just royally screw up"?

I know people who have sat the board. I have had them review my package and go over evals. no detail left out.

and still I'm sitting here asking myself "what did I just do?"

its ok to retire as a first class. I know this.

 

[Guest Riverine Rat]

59 minutes ago, Butter Star said:

OK here is the deal.  I have not sat a promotion board but I have sat numerous ranking and SOQ/SOY boards.  Not having looked at your record or other people's records I would guess that you might be one dimensional.  That sounds bad, but in reality it isn't, but for promotion it is.

CPO selection boards are a point system.  Whoever has more points gets selected.  That's it, it's more complicated than that, but that's basically it.  If someone else got promoted and you didn't what it comes down to is they had more points.  Doesn't mean they are better or did or didn't deserve it.  They had more points, they played the game better.

We don't have to agree with what the Navy values and assigns points to, but we have to play by the rules of the game if you want to promote.  I have ranked people higher than people that were obviously better Sailors because that's how the points breakdown landed.  The selection board members don't have a choice.  You might top out in points on leadership, but if you don't have any volunteering or education you miss out on those points.  So you scored slightly higher on leadership than this other guy, but he has a degree and coaches his sons football team.  He's a chief now and you aren't.  Is he a better Sailor?  Probably not, but it's the system we work within.

So my advice to anyone that is bitter (I'm not saying you shouldn't be) is to look at the big picture.  Ask people what they did that were selected and anything they did that you didn't.  Well do it and make sure it is documented in a way the board will see it.

 

I see your point and I can agree with you if that is the case. I will use myself because I don't know others situations on here. One dimensional is something that can hold someone back but myself I started my career as an AO advanced to E-5 at my first command and was the go to AO2 in G-1 running the flight deck shop. Even had an AO1 working along side me who never worked the flight deck before to train her up. Evals reflected. went recruiting and advanced to AO1 was ranked #3 out of the command and once again go to recruiter. Went to the Riverines qualified fully within the command and was LPO and transitioned the command during the merge with MSRON before they because Coastal Riverines, Ran multiple combat missions where I planned the missions from start to finish, conducting briefings, ect. Letter of Designation as a Boat Captain with weapons release and detain authority. Went back in rate to a Carrier and was production LPO G-3 in charge of 126 sailors. converted to NC and now a full time recruiter. I have W/SW/EXW/IDW and my Small Craft pin. PPME/JPME/USMAP. Almost completed with my BS degree. was command DAPA, Air Warfare Coordinator, EXW Coordinator, I have Ranked Evals, always progressing evals showing Im not stagnate within the commands. Currently training Chiefs and Officers on how to be recruiters which is stated in my eval.

Now I have been told due to just converting to NC that could have been a reason I was not selected last year because they want to see how I performed once I became an NC when I have MCPO who have sat the board review my record and say I have checked the blocks, I have stepped out of Rate and excelled, I have Sailorization and SSP, Leadership, ect. And they don't know why I am not a Chief, and "They" want me as a Chief. It makes it frustrating. Im not saying those who have been selected where not better but when I see sailors I know for a fact don't have what I have or done what I have done get selected because they don't measure up, its hard to say its because they where better then me or I have not done enough or they did more. I have seen young FCPO who have never been in leadership get selected and fail because they where never LPO and know that struggle. They never had any collateral duties, college, volunteer, Quals, Awards, or anything that can justify them being better then myself. Not saying they didn't deserve it. Just saying I out performed them across all spectrums and still didn't get selected.

But that is why I like coming on here and see and learn from peers and seniors alike and see what I can do to break out more. Maybe I am not doing something right but I would like to be told "You need to do this" or "Work on that" so I have something I can do to improve myself.

[Guest ETC(IW/AW)]

Something each person has to realize is that every year the board is unique, as in the individuals who make up the board.  You can hit all the "checks in the box" or have all the things listed on here and everywhere else taken care of and still not make it.  Being out of your current rate can help by showing diversity and can also hold you back for lack of in rate experience.  The key is perspective is what gets most people (the perspective of the group looking at your package), look at your records as someone else would and if you can get someone else to look with you.  You would be surprised what can be missed or overlooked.  Sometimes a simple acknowledgement in your LTB is all that is needed while other discrepancies require much more effort on your part.  The thing is there is something present or not present that is preventing your selection, the hard part is figuring out what it is and the target is a moving one.  Talk with your Chief or for that matter any Chief (sometimes an outsider from your Chain of Command will give you a better look) and ask them to review your records with you,  I am always willing to assist anyone that reaches out.  The delay can be taxing, I get that.  For now enjoy your time with your family and friends, the season can be time consuming for those selected.  If you are not selected begin immediately reviewing your records and preparing for the next attempt...it will be here before you know it.  Best of luck to all.  

[Guest DeepSeaND]

Just got word August 7th for E7 results. I havnt been on here for a few years. I made it last year so I know the feeling. Good luck to all

[Guest ETC(IW/AW)]

3 minutes ago, papasmurf said:

Thanks Chief good insight, i deff need to sit with a Chief or two and walk through my record and make sure all is being represented properly. I do have a question, do they ever look at exam scores?

I have heard they CAN look at the scores, but do not have to (it can be used as a tie-breaker type of factor).  I do not know that for fact...another one of those Sea Lawyer bits of information.  Anyone else got any other gouge on this question?

[Guest Christyl]

7 minutes ago, DeepSeaND said:

Just got word August 7th for E7 results. I havnt been on here for a few years. I made it last year so I know the feeling. Good luck to all

Noooooo. Give the word back. 

[Guest Riverine Rat]

10 minutes ago, papasmurf said:

Dang! i feel inadequate reading that LOL seriously strong work right there very awesome. Im a pinned CCC and love that side of the navy although i dont think id want to convert to NC if it was an option in the reserves. But good on ya, the navy needs great NC's to bring in top tallent to be great sailors keep up the awesome work, Im sure you will get the S sooner rather than later!

Thanks and I hope to see everyone make it. I don't want anyone to think I am bitter towards anyone who gets selected because I believe if you are there is something you have done that the board see in you and says "They are ready!" Im just stating my frustration in not knowing what I need to do to get the nod. I have always tried to do my best because I don't like being called out for my failure when I know I could have worked harder and not failed. Good luck to all and keep the forum rolling we can all learn from each other. If I do get selected I know I still have much to learn and will never think "I've made it" I will keep striving to make myself, Sailors, and Future Sailors better.

[Guest The Man]

a pretty reliable secret squirrel told me the 2nd or 3rd.

[Guest DeepSeaND]

3 minutes ago, quester37 said:

AD or FTS/SELRES?  or Both.... 

Not sure about FTS/SELRES. Just got word for AD August 7th. 

[Guest IS1(IW/SW/AW/EXW)]

2 minutes ago, ETC(IW/AW) said:

I have heard they CAN look at the scores, but do not have to (it can be used as a tie-breaker type of factor).  I do not know that for fact...another one of those Sea Lawyer bits of information.  Anyone else got any other gouge on this question?

Sometimes it's frustrating to know you'll never make Chief because your Chief is TERRIBLE.  I mean, just the worst!  For example, my Chief (who only made Chief by stealing my accomplishments for his eval) is so bad, he...wait.  ETC(IW/AW)...OH GOD IT'S MY CHIEF.

[Guest HawkISback]

27 minutes ago, DeepSeaND said:

Just got word August 7th for E7 results. I havnt been on here for a few years. I made it last year so I know the feeling. Good luck to all

I choose not to live in this reality. 

[Guest Redsnoopy414]

Um, here is what I heard about results. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who heard at 31 Flavors last night that results will be out on a day that ends in "y".  

Changed a little.  But if you can name the movie you get a lifetime supply of nothing. This is my 8th or 9th go round. Until it's from an official source (CMC or Chief doesn't count) I won't believe it.  Better off taking bets. 

[Guest Redsnoopy414]

Been on here off and on for years.  Tony.  Thank you for for running this forum. Always a great source of insight and humor.  

[Tony]

17 minutes ago, papasmurf said:

I received an email from the Russians that said Hillary has a copy of the list but deleted it w bleach bit

Good timing! We are assembling the snoopy team and our forum SEAL team members for a few recon missions. All intel will be gathered and disseminated after @HawkISback gives it a reality check. Does the CNP have a smile, frown or smirk?

Away the Snoopy team away!!!