FY-15 LDO/CWO SELECTION BOARD

[Guest Blade2950]

If you ever have questions I can be reached at taylorma@ddg88.navy.mil

Thanks. 

[Guest]

i thought i saw a message someplace about the security enhancements or something like that. i'm getting old cuz' i read it because of my server issues but cant remember... 

 

Yeah, BOL has had some major issues and security flaws.  Small pieces are coming back one by one.  Not sure if it will ever be fully restored to the way it was... We'll see. 

 

And Redtab78,

 

I was happy to see your name on the list.  I remember looking at your applicaiton last year and thought you had a good shot then.   Well done!

[Guest YNC(SS)]

I'm not going to lie, yesterday hurt pretty bad.  But I am going to move on and get ready for next year.  I need to get a back on a submarine and do what I do best.  Congratulations to all that made it.  This was my first time not being selected for any rank and it is very humbling.  But I will use this experience as motivation for next year and move forward.

[Guest CursedSwabbie]

You can't look at it like "your not good enough" you have to think about it as there was tough competition, and some edged you out but chances are by something they have that you didnt...could be a college class, could be an OOD letter...you will never know.

 

It took me 6 times before my name showed up on that list, and every year the only thing I could do was go back and add more to my record that I didnt have the year before...talk to those in your designator that was selected and ask them what their package looked like....I cant tell you how many I have looked at in a comparison to my own...or how many times I e-mailed my package to someone to get their opinion...many times it was to TOP ranked (CDR / Captains) to look at my package and they all kept the saying the same thing  "I dont know Chief, I thought for sure you would be on the list this year"  that gets discouraging after a while, until someone finally told me I didnt have enough ranking evals was the only thing that he could see...so I worked even harder and got the EP for my first Senior Chief eval..and apparently thats what did it for me?!?

 

I thought for sure this wasnt my year again, dont know why just something nagging in the back of my head like I had forgotten some crucial important piece of paper, yet here I am on the list...

 

Bottom line, is dont give up...seek out GOOD mentorship on your package, not a buddy that will tell you "Oh its GTG" ask for the hard advice, and work to fix those area's

 

You can't look at it like "your not good enough" you have to think about it as there was tough competition, and some edged you out but chances are by something they have that you didnt...could be a college class, could be an OOD letter...you will never know.

 

It took me 6 times before my name showed up on that list, and every year the only thing I could do was go back and add more to my record that I didnt have the year before...talk to those in your designator that was selected and ask them what their package looked like....I cant tell you how many I have looked at in a comparison to my own...or how many times I e-mailed my package to someone to get their opinion...many times it was to TOP ranked (CDR / Captains) to look at my package and they all kept the saying the same thing  "I dont know Chief, I thought for sure you would be on the list this year"  that gets discouraging after a while, until someone finally told me I didnt have enough ranking evals was the only thing that he could see...so I worked even harder and got the EP for my first Senior Chief eval..and apparently thats what did it for me?!?

 

I thought for sure this wasnt my year again, dont know why just something nagging in the back of my head like I had forgotten some crucial important piece of paper, yet here I am on the list...

 

Bottom line, is dont give up...seek out GOOD mentorship on your package, not a buddy that will tell you "Oh its GTG" ask for the hard advice, and work to fix those area's

Thank you for the advice.

[Guest gmarquay]

TIS is not a major factor 642X select 13 years

I think that might not be true on the flip side.  Too much TIS might have been a factor.  I had no chance to select for W5 in the future. 

This was my last shot, so I'm headed to the civilian world very soon (as long as I can get MILPERS to negate my extension and accept my Fleet Reserve package). 

There were a couple of other common selection factors that I noticed, and which will help me determine how best to direct my junior Sailors as they attempt to advance in their careers.  I had a selcetion to OCS a few years ago.  I had my final select taken away when it was realized that I would be beyond the age limit (by three weeks) upon commission.  Looking at the factors for an OCS Commission vs CWO, I find a clear distinction in qualification requirements that I hadn't noticed until know.  I think I can use this to help my Sailors as they make their commissioning program decisions.  So that is deffinitely a positive effect that I carry away from all of this.

As for me, I begin my Ph.D. in Education this summer.  This year's board results were my "fork in the road" which determined what path I would head down.  Congrats to those whose names appeared on this year's list. 

[Guest Teck1616]

Does anyone know where to find the ENS Alternate selectees? I went through previous LDO/CWO board results, going back 2006, but no alternates were listed.  I figure, if they list them, it might cause issues.  Thanks for the response. 

[Guest guy2001]

I'm not going to lie, yesterday hurt pretty bad.  But I am going to move on and get ready for next year.  I need to get a back on a submarine and do what I do best.  Congratulations to all that made it.  This was my first time not being selected for any rank and it is very humbling.  But I will use this experience as motivation for next year and move forward.

 

Don't give up brother....saw your package its impressive...your time will come!

[Guest Teck1616]

If they go back 5 years on eval, mine will look like this: E5-2MPs and 1 EP. Made E6 first time up E6-MP, 2/3(frocking) MP 6/30(number 2 mp), EP, 1/39(SOY). Made CPO first time up last Sep. CPO-EP 1/3(frocking), EP, transfer. Education: 2 Masters. All appraisal (4) look great. One 641 member on the current board did one of my appraisals (I hope he gets my package lol).I was ranked 1/3 at my command for LDO. I do not have enough TIS for CWO. All 641/741s that reviewed my package after I wasn't selected told me that they are pretty sure sea time killed me. They liked my eval write ups, diversity of commands and jobs, and appraisals. I am nervous because I finally had an opportunity to go to a a Seal Team command, but my orders got cancelled after I made Chief and now I am on my way to a NOSC. Even if I didn't make it this year, I would have liked to have an opportunity to go to an operational command, and I wouldn't be mad because I finally got the command I wanted.

I was almost as the same record as yours.  E5-2MP/2EP.  E6-1MP/1EP/1EPtrans/1of26/Senior SOY/PS of the Year.  Made CPO first time.  But I only have AS degree.  3 appraisal looked good (2-6410; 1-7411).  1 LOR from a VADM.  LPO at sea with 26 Sailors of 6 different ratings.  2 NECs (DK and Classifier).  Dual qual.  6 deployments in 10 year period.  Most qualification are met, except for flag writer.  10 Navy service schools, like ASF, SAPR VA, Legal clerk, etc --- still was not selected for this year.  It's really hard not to know what went wrong so I can fix. 

[Guest]

I was almost as the same record as yours.  E5-2MP/2EP.  E6-1MP/1EP/1EPtrans/1of26/Senior SOY/PS of the Year.  Made CPO first time.  But I only have AS degree.  3 appraisal looked good (2-6410; 1-7411).  1 LOR from a VADM.  LPO at sea with 26 Sailors of 6 different ratings.  2 NECs (DK and Classifier).  Dual qual.  6 deployments in 10 year period.  Most qualification are met, except for flag writer.  10 Navy service schools, like ASF, SAPR VA, Legal clerk, etc --- still was not selected for this year.  It's really hard not to know what went wrong so I can fix.

Back to the drawing board. I ran the selectees on FLTMPS and I was like wow! You never know what they are looking for. 641 is missing one quota and I hope it's a hold. If it's not, that will be very discouraging. I have never seen 641 not fill all quotas. With bol down how can someone know if he or she is on hold?

[Guest]

I'm not going to lie, yesterday hurt pretty bad.  But I am going to move on and get ready for next year.  I need to get a back on a submarine and do what I do best.  Congratulations to all that made it.  This was my first time not being selected for any rank and it is very humbling.  But I will use this experience as motivation for next year and move forward.

That's how I felt the first time! When you are used to advancing first time up, this board can ruin your hope. I have seen great Mustangs who select after 5 or 6 tries. This in my opinion is the most subjective board in the Navy. If I was selected, I know luck played a better part than performance. That's why they keep telling applicants to keep applying.

[Guest]

Back to the drawing board. I ran the selectees on FLTMPS and I was like wow! You never know what they are looking for. 641 is missing one quota and I hope it's a hold. If it's not, that will be very discouraging. I have never seen 641 not fill all quotas. With bol down how can someone know if he or she is on hold?

 

There is no way right now.  Someone out there knows who it is though... They probably contacted the person on hold if there is one... I hope there is... It would be a big disappointment if we didn't fill the whole quota with some of the applications I have seen this year...

[Guest]

This is always a great time when the selections are announced. I know it is rough for some. If this is your goal, I would never stop submitting. Get out and meet the senior LDO's/CWO's. People keep saying it for a reason.

Take it as a grain of salt, but LOR's from high ranking people are, well, for lack of better words, taken as a grain of salt. Focus on meeting your community leaders.

[Guest NavyDave23]

Congratulations to everyone who made it!!!

This was my first time applying for LDO (and last due to TIS restraints) and my first time applying for CWO.  I didn't get selected for either, but I'm using this bad news as motivation.  I have a question for you guys.  I have been penciled in to transfer to Bahrain. My rotation date should be mid-July.  My current command says they cannot endorse my package by that timeframe because it'll still be too early and I'm afraid that my new command won't endorse it either due to me just transferring there.  If that's the case, the same thing will happen the following year, since I'm only taking a year billet.  Any thoughts as to what I can do to increase my chances of having one of these commands endorse my package?  I would hate to miss out on the next 2 cycles.  Thanks

[Guest]

you will only need to CO recommendation. I am sure if you have a solid package who ever the Mustang running the application process at your new command will get interviews set up for you and talk to the CO.  unfortunately you wont get ranked that high since your the new guy but you don't need to be # 1 to get selected. I have seen people ranked last pick it up

[Guest gmarquay]

Redtab78, 

 

      You state that getting selected for CWO is "not so much as luck as it is a matter of proving your own worth."  I chewed on this statement for some time before replying, because I both agree and disagree.  I agree that, to a certain point, a person makes their own luck.  It is up to the individidual to earn that degree, get those qualifications, hold and excell at those tough positions and make their contribution a solid one.  However, "proving your own worth" is probably not the best choice of vocabulary in this instance.

     You see, many of us prove our worth as part of our daily routine.  I've held and excelled at positions that I would venture to say many of this year's selectess for my designator have not yet had the opportunity to hold.  Education wasn't a factor- as I am a doctoral candidate and was not selected.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen candidates who hold no degrees get selected; a practice I actually believe is fully in line with the spirit of the CWO program (which should make technical expertise and leadership the primary selection factors).  I've seen candidates with a lot less TIS get selected.  There is simply no way those folks have had the opportunity to lead as many Sailors to hard-fought success as I have.  Nor is it in the realm of realistic possibility that they are more well rounded and knowledgable in my designator's area of expertise that I am.  I'm certain thier are fantastic communicators and leaders, otherwise they wouldn't have been selected.  I'm just confident that my experience and espertise outweighs many of theirs at this point.  I've consistantly demonstrated sustained superior performance in every single aspect of the stated precept for my designator.  I would venture to say that many of the non-selects from this year (or any other year) feel the same way; and rightly so, I'm sure.

     Here's where factors other than "proving your own worth" come into play; factors such as timing and....wait for it.....luck!

     I've got 20 years of service, thus making this my last time up for the CWO program.  If the board is looking to build the future of the CWO community, then selecting a person who would not have the opportunity to put on W-5 makes no sense, as it doesn't support that strategic goal.  Better to pick younger candidates who will have the opportunity to grow into fine officers within the CWO community.  I look forward to hopefully serving with some of this year's selectees, and helping them grow into their new positions of increased responsibility and accountability.  Many of them will go on to contribute to the Navy in ways that I cannot even currently imagine.  I wish I'd had the opportunity to give back to our Navy in such a manner and have no qualms when I state that I envy them thier place in Naval history.

     Luck?  It can be a factor in any aspect of a Sailor's career; even in an Officer selection program.  I wouldn't even have been attempting to attain a commission as a Warrant if luck hadn't been a factor.  You see, a few years ago I was selected for direct commission via OCS.  My final select was taken away when it was realized that I would be three weeks beyond my 35th birthday at the time of commission.  How did luck affect this?  No joke.  I was three weeks overdue at birth.  (Yeah, my mother was really mad at me for that one; and my wife tells me I'm late all the time!)  Someone out there was selected as an alternate for that OCS slot.  They are now an LTjg (almost an LT), and have no idea that it is because I was born three weeks too late.  Luck.  Luck is never the primary factor in selection, Redtab.  However, it cannot be denied that this factor exists and that many people reap untold benefits from it- wether they know it or not.

     Finally, Redtab78, I've read all of the advice you've given to some of the folks on here who did not get selected this year. Much of it has been very solid.  Some of it, like "proving your own worth", can be taken as condescending at best.  I read a lot of what you say you did to make yourself marketable for your new position.  I think its wonderful that you were selected, and wish you continued success in the wardroom.  Just don't forget that part of leading Sailors lies in being humble.  Suggesting that folks who haven't been selected haven't proven their worth can be more than a little off-putting.  I understand the point you were trying to make.  There was probably just a better way to make it.  Those nuances abound in the wardroom; and you'll be surrounded by many who are just waiting to pounce on your choice of syntax.  I wish you the very best.  I am certain that Chief Warrant Officer Redtab78 will flourish, and the wardroom will reap the benefits.  Best of luck to you, Shipmate!

[Guest NavyDave23]

 

Ask your current CO to write a LOR for your package. We had a CPO check in August last year and submitted his through this COC, and he actually fell out good on the ranking boards for the ship. Granted he didnt get selected, but he walked on and turned in his package and they accepted it.

Thank you Redtab 78.

[Tony]

I do not want to turn this into an internet argument, I respect Tony and his forums too much, so should you have further questions or comments please PM me about them.

 

As long as everything is civil and respectful, debates, arguments and even soapbox grandstanding is fine on the forum, thanks.

[Guest gmarquay]

Redtab78,

 

     My post was not meant, in any way, to stir up argument.  While I think there is a better way of making your point, your disagreement with that is noted.  I'm glad you've been able to accomplish so much.  I would just venture to say that many who did not select have done just as much.  Taking the hard jobs, tackling difficult collaterals, and consistantly being deployed are par for the course for any good Chief Petty Officer; regardless of wether or not they apply for the CWO program.  I know this because I'm about to go chair an EIDWS Board since I'm the program coordinator, then give a CMEO brief to my OIC, coordinate two weeks of certification classes/testing for Sailors from multiple UICs, secure funding for new required trainig courses, Facilitate a CPO-365 Phase 1 topic (as CPO-365 coordinator for the command), etc.  Then I'll head to a (thankfully early) PTA meeting, before heading to the local YMCA to coach Youth Judo. (Okay, so two of my daughters take judo there, so its not twisting my arm too much, wink-wink).  Finally, I'll be going to a late sports therapy massage appointment to alleviate the stiffness surrounding the rods and screws holding my neck together from when I broke it on deployment in 2012.  I'm betting a lot of the non-selects this year have schedules that are just as tough. In fact, I gurantee it.  As I said: Its par for the course for any good Chief Petty Officer.  It sounds like you're a solid member of the Mess, so it will be a loss for us to have you leave.  Just remember that we're still bringing to bear the very best of ourselves, day in and day out.  Leverage the drive of your CPOs as you make your way in the wardroom.  Again, best of luck shipmate.  I look forward to seeing you post in these chatrooms next year!

[Tony]

Redtab78, 

 

      You state that getting selected for CWO is "not so much as luck as it is a matter of proving your own worth."  I chewed on this statement for some time before replying, because I both agree and disagree.  I agree that, to a certain point, a person makes their own luck.  It is up to the individidual to earn that degree, get those qualifications, hold and excell at those tough positions and make their contribution a solid one.  However, "proving your own worth" is probably not the best choice of vocabulary in this instance.

     You see, many of us prove our worth as part of our daily routine.  I've held and excelled at positions that I would venture to say many of this year's selectess for my designator have not yet had the opportunity to hold.  Education wasn't a factor- as I am a doctoral candidate and was not selected.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen candidates who hold no degrees get selected; a practice I actually believe is fully in line with the spirit of the CWO program (which should make technical expertise and leadership the primary selection factors).  I've seen candidates with a lot less TIS get selected.  There is simply no way those folks have had the opportunity to lead as many Sailors to hard-fought success as I have.  Nor is it in the realm of realistic possibility that they are more well rounded and knowledgable in my designator's area of expertise that I am.  I'm certain thier are fantastic communicators and leaders, otherwise they wouldn't have been selected.  I'm just confident that my experience and espertise outweighs many of theirs at this point.  I've consistantly demonstrated sustained superior performance in every single aspect of the stated precept for my designator.  I would venture to say that many of the non-selects from this year (or any other year) feel the same way; and rightly so, I'm sure.

     Here's where factors other than "proving your own worth" come into play; factors such as timing and....wait for it.....luck!

     I've got 20 years of service, thus making this my last time up for the CWO program.  If the board is looking to build the future of the CWO community, then selecting a person who would not have the opportunity to put on W-5 makes no sense, as it doesn't support that strategic goal.  Better to pick younger candidates who will have the opportunity to grow into fine officers within the CWO community.  I look forward to hopefully serving with some of this year's selectees, and helping them grow into their new positions of increased responsibility and accountability.  Many of them will go on to contribute to the Navy in ways that I cannot even currently imagine.  I wish I'd had the opportunity to give back to our Navy in such a manner and have no qualms when I state that I envy them thier place in Naval history.

     Luck?  It can be a factor in any aspect of a Sailor's career; even in an Officer selection program.  I wouldn't even have been attempting to attain a commission as a Warrant if luck hadn't been a factor.  You see, a few years ago I was selected for direct commission via OCS.  My final select was taken away when it was realized that I would be three weeks beyond my 35th birthday at the time of commission.  How did luck affect this?  No joke.  I was three weeks overdue at birth.  (Yeah, my mother was really mad at me for that one; and my wife tells me I'm late all the time!)  Someone out there was selected as an alternate for that OCS slot.  They are now an LTjg (almost an LT), and have no idea that it is because I was born three weeks too late.  Luck.  Luck is never the primary factor in selection, Redtab.  However, it cannot be denied that this factor exists and that many people reap untold benefits from it- wether they know it or not.

     Finally, Redtab78, I've read all of the advice you've given to some of the folks on here who did not get selected this year. Much of it has been very solid.  Some of it, like "proving your own worth", can be taken as condescending at best.  I read a lot of what you say you did to make yourself marketable for your new position.  I think its wonderful that you were selected, and wish you continued success in the wardroom.  Just don't forget that part of leading Sailors lies in being humble.  Suggesting that folks who haven't been selected haven't proven their worth can be more than a little off-putting.  I understand the point you were trying to make.  There was probably just a better way to make it.  Those nuances abound in the wardroom; and you'll be surrounded by many who are just waiting to pounce on your choice of syntax.  I wish you the very best.  I am certain that Chief Warrant Officer Redtab78 will flourish, and the wardroom will reap the benefits.  Best of luck to you, Shipmate!

 

 

Having seen this post earlier, I felt obligated to throw my two cents worth particularly about luck and that Ltjg (almost LT) who in all actuality does deserve his or her selection. I definitely can say you have a genuine care for the Navy and am glad you are serving in the best Navy in the world: I do not agree though that you had your selection taken away from you, or that someone took your place.

 

I believe it was a matter of you not meeting the criteria for OCS ; the same rules that all others have to follow. In the process of getting selected for OCS, through vetting, someone discovered something that honestly you should have found yourself – that you did not meet the criteria for a particular program because of your age.

 

You state that someone was selected as an alternate so I assume this was caught later, but I believe this is something that could have been avoided from the onset. I felt compelled to post mainly because I do not think that anyone chosen for a particular program was chosen because of luck or fate, alternate or otherwise. They earned it, just as you and others have earned my respect for making Chief, because they were fully qualified.

[Guest ITCSDPW]

I think that might not be true on the flip side.  Too much TIS might have been a factor.  I had no chance to select for W5 in the future. 

This was my last shot, so I'm headed to the civilian world very soon (as long as I can get MILPERS to negate my extension and accept my Fleet Reserve package). 

There were a couple of other common selection factors that I noticed, and which will help me determine how best to direct my junior Sailors as they attempt to advance in their careers.  I had a selcetion to OCS a few years ago.  I had my final select taken away when it was realized that I would be beyond the age limit (by three weeks) upon commission.  Looking at the factors for an OCS Commission vs CWO, I find a clear distinction in qualification requirements that I hadn't noticed until know.  I think I can use this to help my Sailors as they make their commissioning program decisions.  So that is deffinitely a positive effect that I carry away from all of this.

As for me, I begin my Ph.D. in Education this summer.  This year's board results were my "fork in the road" which determined what path I would head down.  Congrats to those whose names appeared on this year's list. 

the process is so crazy I promise if we try to figure out what will help the most, what are distractors, etc we will go crazy. I know people with 20 years get selected for CWO last year. Its just so much that they look at I really think its based off of your competition that year. Good luck to you in your post Naval career brother.

[Guest ITCSDPW]

As for the alternates I think they don't list them because it would be too much to bear if you was an alternate for this year and re-applied next year and wasn't selected.

[Guest]

Some great dialogue on this, I believe. It just comes to show that even on the non-select side, there are great candidates out there. The board probably could have picked 30 people if they had the quotas, but they can only pick a few.

[Guest gmarquay]

Some great dialogue on this, I believe. It just comes to show that even on the non-select side, there are great candidates out there. The board probably could have picked 30 people if they had the quotas, but they can only pick a few.

Agreed.  It all depends on what the internal precept language is.  When some non-selected candidates meet all the creieria (and more) on the stated precept, and a quick FLTMPS check shows that many of the actual selectees only meet some of it, only the internal precept language is the difference between selection and non-selection.  However, the oath to remain silent about board proceedings cannot be broken.  So those of us who weren't selected will be left scratching our heads if we don't know what to look for.  I love statistics, and spend what little free time I have running them on various topics that interest me.  After running the numbers on a few of the more obvious variables, I had a low statistical probability of selection; regardless of what my record reflects.  That fact alone is comforting, as I believe that numbers and facts don't lie.  The results support what I consider to be the most likely strategic goals of the CWO community for my designator, as well as long term strategic goals of the Navy in general.  I hadn't thought of running the numbers before.  If I had, I probably wouldn't have worried so much this time around, and would have started planning my retirement a little earlier.