FY18 Chief Selection Board

[Tony 540]

For those wanting to get an early start in getting advice, networking and sharing, you can start here. Additionally, there is a CPO365 Phase I thread that many may find beneficial. To keep things organized for your sake, please discuss CPO365 stuff in that thread. It will make it easier and more relevant for later use.

The "To Do" & "Required Reading" list that you, the member, wrote and built. 

More resources may be forthcoming but don't forget to start studying yesterday!

Superior Performance - Well Documented

Sailorizing the Sailors

[Tony 540]

Wanted to share something @Ordy posted:

Ok, so I would like to share some gouge I got last year.  

Let me give you a brief background on me so that this makes sense.  Two commands ago I left as the #2 EP (periodic) in my command.  I had been an extremely successful LPO in three different positions during my time there.  My duty was shore based, but I was deployable.  I was very successful on my deployments and was a division chief at a MALS unit overseas in Japan.  I had been attending college for 5 years and at the time was 6 or so classes away from my bachelors.  Career counselor, lots of volunteerism, Joint service, 7 NAMs, well above CO's average with normal upward progression with sustained superior performance.  I then transferred to Recruiting Duty where I flew out the gate as the Rookie Recruiter of the year, then LPO of a recruiting station the following year.  I had all the blocks I had the opportunity to check filled with a few that I still had plans to pursue when offered the opportunity.  My evals were solid.  About 50 chiefs looked at my evals and had little to no critiques.  I got the "N" last year and about went through the roof.

I ended up contacting a Master Chief who had sat the board and sent in my package to him to review and tell me where I went wrong.  He said, number one, that he wished there were more quotas and that it was extremely difficult to rack and stack.  He said that having to move a person worthy of Chief to the no select pile was one of the hardest things he had ever had to do, but that it was a necessity.  He began to tear my package apart, which really pissed me off, by asking a thousand questions about it.  He asked... 

Why don't you have your MOVSM when you have all this volunteerism?  It was all documented, I didn't know I needed it if it was already there.

Why don't you have a degree with all of this college in your record?  I had to switch to a BS due to degree completion timeline requirements at my school.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

Why didn't you have this qual at this command?  I was deployable and my command wouldn't support it because I could leave at any time.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

I didn't see PPME in your record.  Why?  I haven't got to that yet, it is on my list of things to do.

Why weren't you the division LPO?  Again, I was deployable, so I was unable to hold that position.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

Why weren't you in QA?  Deployable.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

These were just a few of the questions that were asked, but they went on and on...  This is what I lost...  I missed out on 10 or so points for a MOVSM that would have taken me a whole hour to write and route.  I missed out on 10 or so points for an associates degree by skipping it and going for my BS.  I missed out on points for quals I was ineligible to get.  I missed out on 10 or so points for PPME because PPME is worth the same as an Associates Degree!!!  

This is what I learned... If I had written in my LTB the reasons for all of this I would have received points and then some.  Let me splain...

If I would have explained the issue with the college, I may have received points and possibly more because I was so close to my BS.  I should have sent in my transcripts with an explanation.  If I would have explained the qual issue, I would have probably received more points for my other accomplishments that I did do because I was unable to do the things they were looking for.  Finally, it's all about the points.  

Sadly, they "grade" your package.  This means that they assign a point value for everything that they find and deduct points for negative things they find.  Unfortunately, they are bound by these rules.  Even though I was super successful leading, mentoring and guiding Sailors; I had an impact everywhere I went; I worked on personal and professional development, the points got me in the end.  So I saw people on the list that I knew, that did not work as hard for their Sailors and their Command as I did, get picked up for Chief.  Even though I slaved countless nights working on my degree, it was for not in the end.  

Let me be clear.  I am not crying.  I picked myself up, dusted off and began to address the issues he brought up.  I always told myself that I wouldn't be that guy who had 100 quals and did nothing with them, well I threw that theory out the window. I got my MOVSM, PPME, Addressed the issues in the LTB, accomplished other things and left my recruiting command as the #3 (periodic).

I hope I make it this year, but if I do not, I know that it isn't because I am not deserving of Chief, it is because I didn't attain enough points to be competitive enough.  It's about points points points.  Get everything you can.  Explain things in your record.  Don't worry about sending in too many enclosures or that your LTB explains too much.  In a nutshell, anything you think would count as points, or if you want them to see it, or know why about something, include it in your LTB.  This may be redundant for most of you, but it was an eye opener for me.  I hope this helps someone... 

[Guest NAVYGUY209]

4 hours ago, Tony said:

Wanted to share something @Ordy posted:

Ok, so I would like to share some gouge I got last year.  

Let me give you a brief background on me so that this makes sense.  Two commands ago I left as the #2 EP (periodic) in my command.  I had been an extremely successful LPO in three different positions during my time there.  My duty was shore based, but I was deployable.  I was very successful on my deployments and was a division chief at a MALS unit overseas in Japan.  I had been attending college for 5 years and at the time was 6 or so classes away from my bachelors.  Career counselor, lots of volunteerism, Joint service, 7 NAMs, well above CO's average with normal upward progression with sustained superior performance.  I then transferred to Recruiting Duty where I flew out the gate as the Rookie Recruiter of the year, then LPO of a recruiting station the following year.  I had all the blocks I had the opportunity to check filled with a few that I still had plans to pursue when offered the opportunity.  My evals were solid.  About 50 chiefs looked at my evals and had little to no critiques.  I got the "N" last year and about went through the roof.

I ended up contacting a Master Chief who had sat the board and sent in my package to him to review and tell me where I went wrong.  He said, number one, that he wished there were more quotas and that it was extremely difficult to rack and stack.  He said that having to move a person worthy of Chief to the no select pile was one of the hardest things he had ever had to do, but that it was a necessity.  He began to tear my package apart, which really pissed me off, by asking a thousand questions about it.  He asked... 

Why don't you have your MOVSM when you have all this volunteerism?  It was all documented, I didn't know I needed it if it was already there.

Why don't you have a degree with all of this college in your record?  I had to switch to a BS due to degree completion timeline requirements at my school.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

Why didn't you have this qual at this command?  I was deployable and my command wouldn't support it because I could leave at any time.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

I didn't see PPME in your record.  Why?  I haven't got to that yet, it is on my list of things to do.

Why weren't you the division LPO?  Again, I was deployable, so I was unable to hold that position.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

Why weren't you in QA?  Deployable.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

These were just a few of the questions that were asked, but they went on and on...  This is what I lost...  I missed out on 10 or so points for a MOVSM that would have taken me a whole hour to write and route.  I missed out on 10 or so points for an associates degree by skipping it and going for my BS.  I missed out on points for quals I was ineligible to get.  I missed out on 10 or so points for PPME because PPME is worth the same as an Associates Degree!!!  

This is what I learned... If I had written in my LTB the reasons for all of this I would have received points and then some.  Let me splain...

If I would have explained the issue with the college, I may have received points and possibly more because I was so close to my BS.  I should have sent in my transcripts with an explanation.  If I would have explained the qual issue, I would have probably received more points for my other accomplishments that I did do because I was unable to do the things they were looking for.  Finally, it's all about the points.  

Sadly, they "grade" your package.  This means that they assign a point value for everything that they find and deduct points for negative things they find.  Unfortunately, they are bound by these rules.  Even though I was super successful leading, mentoring and guiding Sailors; I had an impact everywhere I went; I worked on personal and professional development, the points got me in the end.  So I saw people on the list that I knew, that did not work as hard for their Sailors and their Command as I did, get picked up for Chief.  Even though I slaved countless nights working on my degree, it was for not in the end.  

Let me be clear.  I am not crying.  I picked myself up, dusted off and began to address the issues he brought up.  I always told myself that I wouldn't be that guy who had 100 quals and did nothing with them, well I threw that theory out the window. I got my MOVSM, PPME, Addressed the issues in the LTB, accomplished other things and left my recruiting command as the #3 (periodic).

I hope I make it this year, but if I do not, I know that it isn't because I am not deserving of Chief, it is because I didn't attain enough points to be competitive enough.  It's about points points points.  Get everything you can.  Explain things in your record.  Don't worry about sending in too many enclosures or that your LTB explains too much.  In a nutshell, anything you think would count as points, or if you want them to see it, or know why about something, include it in your LTB.  This may be redundant for most of you, but it was an eye opener for me.  I hope this helps someone... 

So this just happened to me today. After I got the N yesterday I hit up one of the Master Chief's I know that was on the board and he tore my package up.

Asked why I don't have my MOVSM when I have the 4 years of volunteer work but like Ordie said I didn't think it would matter since I did the time.

I had a NAM labeled 2nd when it was my 3rd and asked why I didn't fix it, It was in the process but nothing yet.

Why does my ESR only show 1 NAM when I have 3.

Why did take so long to get my MTS, took 2 years when it should have been 1. Told him I was the only instructor, so lack of time was one and lazy is the other. I thought that if I got it, it didn't matter but board looks at how long it takes to get it too. Also I didn't get my SEJPME and PPME until after I made board and that hurts.

Lack of CPO 365 involvement on my evals even though I lead some, evals should have said it.

I'm on shore why didn't I do college. To be honest with this one coming off 5 1/2 years sea duty college was the last thing I wanted to do considering I go back to sea in December

[Admin_warrior 32]

22 hours ago, NAVYGUY209 said:

So this just happened to me today. After I got the N yesterday I hit up one of the Master Chief's I know that was on the board and he tore my package up.

Asked why I don't have my MOVSM when I have the 4 years of volunteer work but like Ordie said I didn't think it would matter since I did the time.

I had a NAM labeled 2nd when it was my 3rd and asked why I didn't fix it, It was in the process but nothing yet.

Why does my ESR only show 1 NAM when I have 3.

Why did take so long to get my MTS, took 2 years when it should have been 1. Told him I was the only instructor, so lack of time was one and lazy is the other. I thought that if I got it, it didn't matter but board looks at how long it takes to get it too. Also I didn't get my SEJPME and PPME until after I made board and that hurts.

Lack of CPO 365 involvement on my evals even though I lead some, evals should have said it.

I'm on shore why didn't I do college. To be honest with this one coming off 5 1/2 years sea duty college was the last thing I wanted to do considering I go back to sea in December

Good stuff. I am on PCS leave and I'm anxious to check in and see why I didn't get the S. My new CO said I was missing some things. I have MOVSM, PPME, JPME, Associate Degree, Navy courses Dapa/Aware, CTT, and multiple in rate(PS) courses. I have sailorizarion documented on each evals with results (advancement,quals, etc). The lack of CPO 365 mentioned on my eval could hurt, although I had active CPO 365 member on my evals until my transfer eval which documented more detailed description of what I did. The transfer eval was too late to be included (15July) So maybe the other sailors had more? I'm anxious to find out what was wrong with my record, I'll share what I learn when I check in. Took a few days but I'm OK with the result now, I put it in perspective. I just turned PS from OS 4 years ago. In addition to that it was my first time up, so I was learning my job and trying to be a LPO at the same time. It was tough but I left with one frocking EP, one P, one #4 EP of 54, and one transfer EP (soft breakout 1 of 45). I helped a lot of sailors, and so many people didn't even know I was OS before that because I was knees deep in instructions and learning. So when everyone says yeah you gonna make it and you don't, it's humbling. But I'm ready to continue to train sailors, and also get better myself.

[Riverine Rat 68]

I would like to ask for the inputs of any of the Chiefs out there willing to mentor me on what I could and should be doing to better myself and sailors. I am a recent NCR convert from AO and didn't get selected this year. 4th time up. I have 13.5 years in and I know personally I can improve on USMAPS, PPME, MOVSM, and finish my AS degree before next cycle. Never had a true mentor or someone to sit down and go through my record with me and tell me straight what I'm missing. I am really looking to find someone who will tell me where my flaws are so I can fix them instead of letting me do the same thing each year and it not work because of my laziness or lack of knowledge. I will be talking with the chief mess and my new command to find a mentor but I am always open to any sujuestion and help where I can get it. I feel I am ready for the next level in my career and I am tired of being a First Class when I know I can be a great addition to the CPO Mess when my time comes but first I need to get the assistance to get me on the wright path. I also welcome all the advise from my fellow First as there are many out there who have knowledge they can share with me to help me learn. His forum has been a great tool in helping me learn so much and now it's time to get to work. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this forum over the years, you help so many of us out.

[Guest CTNCMD]

Longtime lurker, but I felt compelled to post this.  Its something a retired Brother wrote to those who did not get selected, as motivation the day after results can understandably be difficult to find, and I thought his words rather poignant:

A quick message to the First Class Petty Officers who did not find their name on the FY-17 CPO Selectee list:

Relax. Take a deep breath. Give yourself a moment (or two) to be disappointed. Keep your head down, and keep doing the things that you are certain are making a real difference. And, while doing them, be comforted in this: Your day will come.

If you are asking "why her, and not me?," then you are asking the wrong question. Try to keep in mind that your shipmate's success is not a sign that you have somehow failed. Chances are, you had a direct hand in her success--whether you realize it or not. She'll spend the next six weeks figuring out who has been in her corner the whole time. She will learn how to pay that forward.

You love the Navy--I get it. The problem for you, unfortunately, is this: the Navy doesn't "love" you back. It is a bureaucratic monolith with all of the flaws and imperfections of every system designed by humans. Despite those blemishes, the Navy is also filled with all of the beautiful quirks and bizarre moments that make serving your country such a blast. Try to seize those moments now in your disappointment--it's why they're there. The funny thing is, far more often than not, this imperfect and quirky system works really well at selecting Sailors who are ready.

So, if you're waiting for the Navy to show you some affection in the shape of a fouled anchor, you'd be just as well served asking the Ford Motor Company to marry you. Anchors aren't an engagement ring; they aren't a prize for marking time or "putting up with crap." Quite frankly, that's what service stripes and Good Conduct Ribbons are for.

There's no other way to say this: When you're ready for selection, you'll know. You will walk around your command wearing a uniform that begins to feel like it no longer fits; you will outgrow your rank. Commissioned Officers, senior enlisted, your peers: they will start treating you differently. This change will be palpable, if almost imperceptible. When that moment hits you, you will no longer need to ask yourself "Is this my year?" Seeing your name on the results list won't be a surprise. It will just be there.

So keep your chins up if you didn't get selected this year.  Your value and impact on Junior Sailors is immeasurable and vital.

[Guest Blankslate]

I have a question that any Chief can answer. How does  NAVADMIN 174/16 impact FY 17 selects? Will they be purchasing the Type 1 NWUs or the Type III NWUs since they become authorized for wear on 1 OCT 16?

[LSHARP 74]

Let's go getting ready for next year. 

LS here: 9 years in this in going to be my 2nd time up Sailorization throughout my Evals, SEJPME, PPME, surface and air warfare qualed, 2813,9590,3001,2829,95PT and will have my 9595 necs FCPOA VP and interim President for 5 months documented on Evals, volunteer service in Evals but no MOVSM, no degree, chaired numerous MAP, JSOQ, JSOY, EAWS boards, CTT lead, Department Career Counselor, Color Guard Lead, EAWS Coordinator, LPO. 

I am in my orders window what should be my focus when I check into my next command as far as collaterals, I plan on leaving here ranked EP. 

[**OldSalt** 102]

Glad to see people are already starting to dust themselves off. Just want to point something out. Don't just focus on were you think you went wrong. That is something that I did every year. As I say that, I admit that I still do it. There are errors you may have made, things you missed. Yes, you need to fix those. There are things you still can and need to do to better set yourself up. But, keep in mind why you are doing what you are doing. Why you want those Anchors. Hopefully it is to better help your sailors. Do that and show that. With evals coming up soon think about this. You got your USMAPs, PPME, JPME, a degree, and so on. What about your sailors? How many of them have those things? Think about it. What do you think looks better to a board that is looking for the future leaders of the Navy? Someone that has their PPME done. Or, someone that has it along with 9 out of 10 of their sailors having it too. That is a lesson I learned to late. Take it from me. Leadership, like everything else in the Navy, has to be documented. You can have all the leadership in the world. Have Sustained Superior Performance day in and day out. But, if it is not written down where the Board can see it, it did not happen.

Going to get off the soapbox now. The height is starting to make me dizzy.

[HMSFIDC 5]

Here's to another year! lol 

with regard to USMAP completions, where are the inputted in our NSIPS? Trying to ensure they are properly documented for my Sailors and I. Everyone I have asked within my command have no idea.

[**OldSalt** 102]

14 minutes ago, NavyChic said:

I have sustained superior performance all stated on my eval and my eval has stated destined for CPO or a Commissioning program

How were these stated? Is the word "destined" actually used on the eval? I am asking because how things are written matters. Like the word "destined" makes it sound like sometime in the future, but not right now.

[Guest NavyChic]

1 minute ago, OneLastDance said:

How were these stated? Is the word "destined" actually used on the eval? I am asking because how things are written matters. Like the word "destined" makes it sound like sometime in the future, but not right now.

Yes, but I will say it was an E5 eval. I had a weak E6 eval write up although it was an EP

[Admin_warrior 32]

33 minutes ago, HMSFIDC said:

Here's to another year! lol 

with regard to USMAP completions, where are the inputted in our NSIPS? Trying to ensure they are properly documented for my Sailors and I. Everyone I have asked within my command have no idea.

USMAP is entered into the certs/quals section of your ESR. It can also be entered into course data, under Other training course 

[Tony 540]

Has anyone outlined a plan of attack as far as what they are going to do to make Chief?

E.g Studying, college, records review, Sailorization etc.
 

[Guest Blankslate]

6 hours ago, Donkey Racer said:

That is an easy one, consult the Commanding Officer as it states in the NAVADMIN. The new uniforms will not be official for three years. Myself, i would not go out and get all those items too soon. The Navy these days has a tendency to change its course. 

I'll ask at the Spouse thing tomorrow then. Right now the Selects here hadn't even been told the Navadmin had come out. 

[Riverine Rat 68]

18 hours ago, Tony said:

Has anyone outlined a plan of attack as far as what they are going to do to make Chief?

E.g Studying, college, records review, Sailorization etc.
 

I was talking with three of my Chiefs today working on exactly this. Having just converted to NCR getting all of my qualifications for my new rate is top on my list and while working on them I will complete my USMAP courses for my new rate. I am have to complete the residency requirements at my university to be awarded my Associets degree which is three classes and will be able to complete before the next board. Finally going to complete my PPME and SEPPME and work on my MOVSM. One of my Chiefs is the CFL for the command and is looking to turn over the program and said it would be a good look for me so command collaterals are going to be looked at as well to see what I will take on. I have already started to study being I just converted I want to ensure I learn and know my new rate to be a better recruiter but that's just going to ensure I am better prepared for the exam. It sounds like a lot but I am breaking everything down into what I can complete right now and what will take time to just keep grinding away at. Sailorization will come in the form of getting involved with CPO365 and lead some events as I am more or less on my own as a recruiter so leading my peers through CPO365 will be my best opertunity to help build up my fellow first as well as helping them get their recruiter qualifications. I am going to grind harder than before to make this my year. CPO here I come this boys hungry!!!

[**OldSalt** 102]

21 hours ago, NavyChic said:

Yes, but I will say it was an E5 eval. I had a weak E6 eval write up although it was an EP

A weak E6 write up is not necessarily a bad thing. Keep in mind you just made it and are being evaluated at a whole new level. The EP is what is getting me. It is one of those things were it looks like they think they are helping you out. And, they are kind of in a way doing that. What that EP is suppose to mean is you could be promoted two pay grades and still be okay. Which is a good thing and shows their confidence in you and your ability to lead. It also helps you be able to take the exam earlier that normal. On the flip side it does two things that can end up hurting you doing it the way they did it. More to the point, the timing in which they did it. First, it gives you no where to go. The only way you can show any growth is in raising your trait average. You lose that P to MP to EP that is one of the things the Board is looking for. They will still look at your trait average from year to year. Also for comparison to others in your summary group, but makes it harder to see. I know there is a tendency to not what to move some one from EP to MP since that looks bad. But, that is two consecutive evals at the same pay grade at the same command. It is not always a bad thing. When you change commands it is expected. Going from an E5 EP to an E6 MP or even P is not going to hurt you either. Second, it sends mixed signals to the Board. So, now the Board is looking at a weak write up with an EP. Those two don't normally go together. So, now they are wondering why you got an EP if your performance was weak. Did you get it because you were ready for it, or were they looking for quotas of EPs to fill and you were the closes? And, keep in mind that they basically are telling the Board you as a someone that just became a First Class Petty Officer would be okay being a Senior Chief. Hope that makes some sense. Just showing up to a command regardless of what you have accomplished before you got there I would expect a P. That is not a negative, and the Board would not look at it a such. It makes sense. And, it leaves you lots of room to show progress. What the other command did is what will lead to the head scratching. But, overall I think is not as big of a deal as I may be making it sound.

[LSHARP 74]

56 minutes ago, CPO_Pride247 said:

Are you in your negotiation window or are you in possession of orders?

First look is this month Chief

[Guest NavyChic]

5 minutes ago, OneLastDance said:

A weak E6 write up is not necessarily a bad thing. Keep in mind you just made it and are being evaluated at a whole new level. The EP is what is getting me. It is one of those things were it looks like they think they are helping you out. And, they are kind of in a way doing that. What that EP is suppose to mean is you could be promoted two pay grades and still be okay. Which is a good thing and shows their confidence in you and your ability to lead. It also helps you be able to take the exam earlier that normal. On the flip side it does two things that can end up hurting you doing it the way they did it. More to the point, the timing in which they did it. First, it gives you no where to go. The only way you can show any growth is in raising your trait average. You lose that P to MP to EP that is one of the things the Board is looking for. They will still look at your trait average from year to year. Also for comparison to others in your summary group, but makes it harder to see. I know there is a tendency to not what to move some one from EP to MP since that looks bad. But, that is two consecutive evals at the same pay grade at the same command. It is not always a bad thing. When you change commands it is expected. Going from an E5 EP to an E6 MP or even P is not going to hurt you either. Second, it sends mixed signals to the Board. So, now the Board is looking at a weak write up with an EP. Those two don't normally go together. So, now they are wondering why you got an EP if your performance was weak. Did you get it because you were ready for it, or were they looking for quotas of EPs to fill and you were the closes? And, keep in mind that they basically are telling the Board you as a someone that just became a First Class Petty Officer would be okay being a Senior Chief. Hope that makes some sense. Just showing up to a command regardless of what you have accomplished before you got there I would expect a P. That is not a negative, and the Board would not look at it a such. It makes sense. And, it leaves you lots of room to show progress. What the other command did is what will lead to the head scratching. But, overall I think is not as big of a deal as I may be making it sound.

I totally understand. I can see how receiving an EP first eval as an E6 and at a new command could hurt but I was only at the command for a year as well. I think it was awesome to take the exam a year early. I've taken the E6 exam early as well because of an EP. I feel like my E5 write ups was stronger than my E6 eval.  

[LSHARP 74]

9 minutes ago, CPO_Pride247 said:

What is your previous duties, NECs, and collaterals? If you don't want to put it on here, send me a private message. Also, can't remember if you are FTS or Active?

1st USS Donald Cook DDG 75- DLR Manager  2nd NOSC Fort Carson- Independent storekeeper  3rd VP-62-LPO

2813,2829,3001,9590,9595,95PT NECs

I have held CFL, Department Career Counselor, CTT Lead, EAWS Coordinator, FCPOA VP, and President, Color Guard Lead, I am FTS  

 

[LSHARP 74]

2 minutes ago, CPO_Pride247 said:

So, you have worked on every platform except Expeditionary? Have you considered Navy Cargo Handling Battalion? As FTS, you can go there, get lots of quals and lead quite a bit of Sailors in supply. You will also work outside the rate as a cargo handler and travel all over the world. If not, what about instructor duty?

FTS is really tight with detailing I would love to go Expeditionary. There are usually only 2-3 options to choose from. The detailer already told me there's no instructor billets. I'm a lil nervous choosing this time. I want a competitive billet. 

[**OldSalt** 102]

3 hours ago, Vape83 said:

That single line is "continue to groom for CPO". Let's just say there were issues and debates. It was on my 2012 eval.

Been there myself a few times. If that line had been in your last few evals I would worry about it. Being that far back not as much depending on what was written since than. That can make a huge difference. Something along the lines of "Ready to be a Chief" or "Already performing at the level of a CPO" would be what you are looking for. If those are in between now and when that was written you should be alright. It does show you have grown as a leader and a sailor. If not than yes, it can still bite you.

 

As for issues and debates. Like I said I have had more that a few of those myself. My advise is unless it is safety of ship/ equipment/ personnel you should think about confronting someone before you do it. Most importantly if it is a Superior. Even if you think, or know you are right. There are times that it is best to keep your head down. It will rub sometimes against the very fiber of your being. But, a little ORM goes a long way. Being right does not stop things from coming back to haunt you in the long run. The people above you were put there for a reason. Sometimes what they are doing makes no sense, or just plain wrong, from your point of view. But, having their experience and seeing things from their side can make a huge difference in prospective. You may feel like you are right, but in reality, you're not. And, sometimes it is just their way of doing it. If you do not agree with it that is okay. Still do it. Like I said they are in the position that they are for a reason. If you have to confront them do it professionally, and be ready to walk away without the result you were looking for. The times you really believe in something than you fight for it with everything you have. But, still be ready to walk away without the result you were looking for. And, before you do start, make sure it is really worth the consequences. A lot of times it feels like it is, but really it is not. When you get to their position than you can do it your way.

[**OldSalt** 102]

29 minutes ago, NavyChic said:

I totally understand. I can see how receiving an EP first eval as an E6 and at a new command could hurt but I was only at the command for a year as well. I think it was awesome to take the exam a year early. I've taken the E6 exam early as well because of an EP. I feel like my E5 write ups was stronger than my E6 eval.  

I agree it is great you were able to take the exam early. Lots of Sailors do. I just wanted to point out that while awesome. It may have come with a price tag that you may not have been aware, or think of. Being at the command for only a year and getting an EP may just not be as big of a deal as I was making it sound. As far as your write ups go that is not surprising. When you have been at a Command for years you get this underlying effect on your evals. In a way you build up steam from one into the next. It looks like you transferred between your last E5 eval and first E6 eval. So, you effectively lost headway between those two which naturally causes a drop in your write up. Couple that with being promoted in which you are being gaged by a whole new measuring stick. Which also results in a write up drop. Putting those things together at the same time your E5 write up are going to sound stronger. That is not necessarily hurt you. Not really help. But, not hurt.

[Iam32 0]

On August 3, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Tony said:

Wanted to share something @Ordy posted:

Ok, so I would like to share some gouge I got last year.  

Let me give you a brief background on me so that this makes sense.  Two commands ago I left as the #2 EP (periodic) in my command.  I had been an extremely successful LPO in three different positions during my time there.  My duty was shore based, but I was deployable.  I was very successful on my deployments and was a division chief at a MALS unit overseas in Japan.  I had been attending college for 5 years and at the time was 6 or so classes away from my bachelors.  Career counselor, lots of volunteerism, Joint service, 7 NAMs, well above CO's average with normal upward progression with sustained superior performance.  I then transferred to Recruiting Duty where I flew out the gate as the Rookie Recruiter of the year, then LPO of a recruiting station the following year.  I had all the blocks I had the opportunity to check filled with a few that I still had plans to pursue when offered the opportunity.  My evals were solid.  About 50 chiefs looked at my evals and had little to no critiques.  I got the "N" last year and about went through the roof.

I ended up contacting a Master Chief who had sat the board and sent in my package to him to review and tell me where I went wrong.  He said, number one, that he wished there were more quotas and that it was extremely difficult to rack and stack.  He said that having to move a person worthy of Chief to the no select pile was one of the hardest things he had ever had to do, but that it was a necessity.  He began to tear my package apart, which really pissed me off, by asking a thousand questions about it.  He asked... 

Why don't you have your MOVSM when you have all this volunteerism?  It was all documented, I didn't know I needed it if it was already there.

Why don't you have a degree with all of this college in your record?  I had to switch to a BS due to degree completion timeline requirements at my school.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

Why didn't you have this qual at this command?  I was deployable and my command wouldn't support it because I could leave at any time.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

I didn't see PPME in your record.  Why?  I haven't got to that yet, it is on my list of things to do.

Why weren't you the division LPO?  Again, I was deployable, so I was unable to hold that position.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

Why weren't you in QA?  Deployable.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

These were just a few of the questions that were asked, but they went on and on...  This is what I lost...  I missed out on 10 or so points for a MOVSM that would have taken me a whole hour to write and route.  I missed out on 10 or so points for an associates degree by skipping it and going for my BS.  I missed out on points for quals I was ineligible to get.  I missed out on 10 or so points for PPME because PPME is worth the same as an Associates Degree!!!  

This is what I learned... If I had written in my LTB the reasons for all of this I would have received points and then some.  Let me splain...

If I would have explained the issue with the college, I may have received points and possibly more because I was so close to my BS.  I should have sent in my transcripts with an explanation.  If I would have explained the qual issue, I would have probably received more points for my other accomplishments that I did do because I was unable to do the things they were looking for.  Finally, it's all about the points.  

Sadly, they "grade" your package.  This means that they assign a point value for everything that they find and deduct points for negative things they find.  Unfortunately, they are bound by these rules.  Even though I was super successful leading, mentoring and guiding Sailors; I had an impact everywhere I went; I worked on personal and professional development, the points got me in the end.  So I saw people on the list that I knew, that did not work as hard for their Sailors and their Command as I did, get picked up for Chief.  Even though I slaved countless nights working on my degree, it was for not in the end.  

Let me be clear.  I am not crying.  I picked myself up, dusted off and began to address the issues he brought up.  I always told myself that I wouldn't be that guy who had 100 quals and did nothing with them, well I threw that theory out the window. I got my MOVSM, PPME, Addressed the issues in the LTB, accomplished other things and left my recruiting command as the #3 (periodic).

I hope I make it this year, but if I do not, I know that it isn't because I am not deserving of Chief, it is because I didn't attain enough points to be competitive enough.  It's about points points points.  Get everything you can.  Explain things in your record.  Don't worry about sending in too many enclosures or that your LTB explains too much.  In a nutshell, anything you think would count as points, or if you want them to see it, or know why about something, include it in your LTB.  This may be redundant for most of you, but it was an eye opener for me.  I hope this helps someone... 

I'm at a training command. What I have learned over the last 2 boards from others that got selected and didn't get selected is that the write up is very important and SSP. I saw the #1EP 2 years in a row SOY that went IA not got selected. He didn't get selected because his other evals were really bad. This year one got selected and wasn't an EP sailor P and MP evals. Last year one got selected even without having there MTS. I know one that got selected without having a degree and another that got selected without doing any PME. How they select is a good question we all know they rack and stack and are left with what is written in the evals. If we knew how many points is each item we check in the box it just getting us to the rack and stack part of the selection. It's different every year everyone has their theory and when they see the list and question how did that guy make it. Each rate is different how can we help each other to make it next year. 

[WJ77 27]

On 8/3/2016 at 0:06 PM, Tony said:

Wanted to share something @Ordy posted:

Ok, so I would like to share some gouge I got last year.  

Let me give you a brief background on me so that this makes sense.  Two commands ago I left as the #2 EP (periodic) in my command.  I had been an extremely successful LPO in three different positions during my time there.  My duty was shore based, but I was deployable.  I was very successful on my deployments and was a division chief at a MALS unit overseas in Japan.  I had been attending college for 5 years and at the time was 6 or so classes away from my bachelors.  Career counselor, lots of volunteerism, Joint service, 7 NAMs, well above CO's average with normal upward progression with sustained superior performance.  I then transferred to Recruiting Duty where I flew out the gate as the Rookie Recruiter of the year, then LPO of a recruiting station the following year.  I had all the blocks I had the opportunity to check filled with a few that I still had plans to pursue when offered the opportunity.  My evals were solid.  About 50 chiefs looked at my evals and had little to no critiques.  I got the "N" last year and about went through the roof.

I ended up contacting a Master Chief who had sat the board and sent in my package to him to review and tell me where I went wrong.  He said, number one, that he wished there were more quotas and that it was extremely difficult to rack and stack.  He said that having to move a person worthy of Chief to the no select pile was one of the hardest things he had ever had to do, but that it was a necessity.  He began to tear my package apart, which really pissed me off, by asking a thousand questions about it.  He asked... 

Why don't you have your MOVSM when you have all this volunteerism?  It was all documented, I didn't know I needed it if it was already there.

Why don't you have a degree with all of this college in your record?  I had to switch to a BS due to degree completion timeline requirements at my school.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

Why didn't you have this qual at this command?  I was deployable and my command wouldn't support it because I could leave at any time.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

I didn't see PPME in your record.  Why?  I haven't got to that yet, it is on my list of things to do.

Why weren't you the division LPO?  Again, I was deployable, so I was unable to hold that position.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

Why weren't you in QA?  Deployable.

Why didn't you write that in your LTB?

These were just a few of the questions that were asked, but they went on and on...  This is what I lost...  I missed out on 10 or so points for a MOVSM that would have taken me a whole hour to write and route.  I missed out on 10 or so points for an associates degree by skipping it and going for my BS.  I missed out on points for quals I was ineligible to get.  I missed out on 10 or so points for PPME because PPME is worth the same as an Associates Degree!!!  

This is what I learned... If I had written in my LTB the reasons for all of this I would have received points and then some.  Let me splain...

If I would have explained the issue with the college, I may have received points and possibly more because I was so close to my BS.  I should have sent in my transcripts with an explanation.  If I would have explained the qual issue, I would have probably received more points for my other accomplishments that I did do because I was unable to do the things they were looking for.  Finally, it's all about the points.  

Sadly, they "grade" your package.  This means that they assign a point value for everything that they find and deduct points for negative things they find.  Unfortunately, they are bound by these rules.  Even though I was super successful leading, mentoring and guiding Sailors; I had an impact everywhere I went; I worked on personal and professional development, the points got me in the end.  So I saw people on the list that I knew, that did not work as hard for their Sailors and their Command as I did, get picked up for Chief.  Even though I slaved countless nights working on my degree, it was for not in the end.  

Let me be clear.  I am not crying.  I picked myself up, dusted off and began to address the issues he brought up.  I always told myself that I wouldn't be that guy who had 100 quals and did nothing with them, well I threw that theory out the window. I got my MOVSM, PPME, Addressed the issues in the LTB, accomplished other things and left my recruiting command as the #3 (periodic).

I hope I make it this year, but if I do not, I know that it isn't because I am not deserving of Chief, it is because I didn't attain enough points to be competitive enough.  It's about points points points.  Get everything you can.  Explain things in your record.  Don't worry about sending in too many enclosures or that your LTB explains too much.  In a nutshell, anything you think would count as points, or if you want them to see it, or know why about something, include it in your LTB.  This may be redundant for most of you, but it was an eye opener for me.  I hope this helps someone... 

I had this same issue, I had someone kind enough from this forum look over my past evals and found out that when my past chain decided to change my eval submissions to something they "thought" would sound better, I was actually robbed of three years worth of work... Even though they assured me they knew what they were doing... Lessons learned. Something else I came to also realize is that there is no "required training" for eval writing, GMT or schools that officers or Chiefs must attend for this in the Navy that I've heard of? If not perhaps something they should look into? I would think that something of that importance to all of our careers would be something driven home on the correct way yet? I know there are third party books and the instruction 1610.10D ch1. Thanks to this forum I now know what I need to do next to remedy the problem from here on out. What I worry is that there are so many out that don't even know why this is the reason they are not even making it to the slate.  It was a real eye opener when I found out just how much hard work was wasted. Needless to say that I'm never going to let that happen to anyone else if I can and the first topic of the next CPO 365 phase one will be the one that I lead showing the correct way an eval should be written and to not go off what someone thinks the board wants to hear.  Big favor I need is that if someone could send me their past  MOVSM  paper work because no one here at my current command has a good example and I would like to submit mine correctly and in the proper way. Thank you all!